Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to JCEL Jabber. My name is Ian Mehta. I use hehim pronouns. I am an Associate professor of Educational Leadership and school Director at the University of Maine, and I am a board member for the Journal of Cases Educational Leadership. JCEL publishes peer reviewed cases for educational leaders who are in preparation programs as well as for practitioners who want to connect theory to practice as part of professional development efforts.
The journal is available online and the goal of JCEL is to help educational leaders create more equitable learning experiences for communities across the globe.
Each case has a narrative, teaching notes, discussion questions, and learning activities for educational leaders to consider.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: And my name is Terry Watson. I'm an Associate professor of Educational Leadership at the City College of New York. I use she her pronouns and I'm also part of the editorial board of jcel. JCEL Jabber is a way to help educators consider how one of the cases from JCEL could be used to support learning for leadership.
JSAL Jabber is a quarterly podcast that helps highlight special collections of articles that are temporarily made available for free to increase access around issues of inequities that exist in our school systems.
It provides listeners a brief 30 minute podcast to engage more deeply in the case and hear nuanced analysis of the issue. It also connects the listener with the author or who provides additional details about the case and provides a discussion with a scholarly practitioner from the field who can discuss how to apply this in practice.
[00:02:25] Speaker C: And My name is Curtis Brewer and I'm an Associate professor at the University of Texas at San Antonio. I am also a co editor of the Journal of Cases in educational leadership or JCEL.
In this episode we review Dr. Blain Dort's case titled Forced Back into the Closet A Queer Principles Attempt to Maintain Queer Erasure. This case was published in 2020 and it critiques the heteronormative culture often reinforced in school systems across the US at the heart of this case is the importance of how and why school leaders can better understand LGBTQ identities in schools and the responsibilities school leaders have to respond to heteronormative ideology and culture.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: So to set the stage for this case and for the listener to hear from the author, we wanted to review how sexuality and gender are important socio cultural identities and how the US Has a long history of enforcing policies, practices and beliefs as heteronormative and an anti trans society.
In the US we see examples of heteronormativity in legal institutions, religion, media, and throughout entertainment.
It makes the assumption that heterosexuality, in other words opposite sex relationships are normal, natural and standard.
Historically, we see this through the legal system, including the prohibition of gay marriage that is historically connected to Christian beliefs, sodomy laws that allow the state to prosecute two consenting adults for being intimate and private, and laws that allow an employer or business to discriminate based on sexual orientation.
Additionally, the US Has a long history of anti trans ideology embedded in our society.
Anti trans ideology imposes the belief that cisgender people, those whose personal identity and gender correspond with their birth sex, determine who is allowed to play on athletic teams, who uses what bathrooms, how or if a child can change their pronouns, and how laws can be used to take children away from parents who support their children in their gender expression.
To be clear, while 21 states have enacted full LGBTQ non discrimination legal protections, there are 27 states that have no LGBTQ legal protections in place, with the remaining two of the 50 states that have varying degrees of protection, or lack thereof, regarding sexuality and gender identity.
And right now, before I turn it over to Terry, I should note that there's currently an entire portfolio of anti trans and anti LGBTQ legislation on the books that I believe that Dr. Dwart will reference later that specifically targets what can and cannot be discussed in schools, many of which are labeled, quote, don't say gay bills or quote, divisive concept end quote bills.
Terry, what can you add?
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Well, when you talk about the US society broadly, there is discrimination against LGBTQ within the community itself. And we need to discuss how homophobia and transphobia exist in the schoolhouse and why this is important for educational leaders to engage in these issues. Now, while I am in New York City and we're pretty liberal, I know that in certain pockets of even the city itself, and not just public schools, but in private and independent schools, it's not as liberal, and sometimes it's liberal on paper, but not in practice. So it's really important to that we listen carefully to Dr. Dord and how he helps us understand the ways that, I guess homophobia and transphobia is communicated in schools, even when there's silence. I know that part of the case really hit home for me. Just I felt your pain even as a heterosexual person, the fact that you couldn't be yourself and had to hide members of your family or your partner who you obviously love, but having to mask that and what that meant and, and how that can be liberating for some children. And that's important because we know that kids who struggle with their sexuality don't often have a smooth transition from middle to high school. And we know that schools for some people can be just prisons in some ways and we'd like them to be liberating spaces and it helps if we can live in our own freedoms. So we know that there is an intentional exclusion of a group of people based on socio cultural identity.
LGBTQ students are more likely to hear bigoted remarks, face harassment, and experience depression, and they are less likely to have access to professional development for minoritized sorry for minoritized identities and access to health education that addresses stereotypes. So I just want to thank I guess the doctors for being present to help us kind of think through this conversation. And I plan on listening more than anything and I'm happy that I can be part of this conversation.
[00:07:35] Speaker C: Yes, so in Dr. Dwart's case titled Forced Back into the Closet A Queer Principal's Attempt to Maintain Queer Erasure, we encounter a teacher who navigates school policies and politics around their personal identity of being gay, particularly what this means in terms of being openly gay in the classroom, school, and community.
This case is a first person telling of the story of one queer school professional struggle against heteronormative and heterosexist educational context the narrator explains that while they grew up in the northeastern part of the United States, known for its more liberal approach to issues of sexuality, they were still bullied as an adolescent by other students as well as the principal.
Eventually, the narrator became an educator in a community not far from where they grew up.
In their practice, they were committed to add anti heteronormativity and anti homophobia to the classroom.
Importantly, this approach was supported by the administration in their school.
However, the narrator's partner's job relocates them to Texas where they looked for a teaching job.
During the interview process, the narrator described difficulties of trying to gauge the degree to which they could be out in a state that does not have anti discrimination protections. They eventually accept a job as a middle school teacher in a charter school that is led by a gay man. Despite this, the narrator was advised to stay in the closet. The reasoning by the principal was that being out might cause parents to pull their kids from the school and that this would hurt the enrollment numbers of the charter school.
During the school year, the students confide in the narrator about their own sexuality. Unfortunately, due to the social pressure and the educational context, the narrator is never able to fully come out to the students who are struggling to find their place.
This leads to disillusionment and resignation of the narrator.
So that's a brief overview of the case and what we want to do is to create an opportunity now for the author and our scholarly practitioner to engage in a discussion about the article and the topic of heteronormative school culture and. And LGBTQ identities in schools more broadly.
So to do that, we'd like to welcome Dr. Brian Dort, who is an assistant professor in the Department of Educational Leadership at Miami University, as well as Dr. Tracy Conrad, who is Chief Program Officer for Equal Opportunity Schools program and received the 2014 UCA Excellence in Educational Leadership Award due to her commitment to achieving equitable access to Advanced placement classes for all students.
Brian, Tracy, welcome to the show. Briefly, would you like to introduce yourself? Let's start with Brian.
[00:10:35] Speaker D: Hello, everyone. I'm Brian Thuart. I am assistant professor in Educational Leadership at Miami University. I'm very excited to be here today to discuss my case in jcel.
[00:10:48] Speaker E: Hi, my name is Tracy Conrad. I'm a former high school principal and teacher.
Very pleased to be here. Thank you for having me. Looking forward to this discussion.
Great.
[00:10:58] Speaker C: We're very glad both of y' all are here with us today. So I'll start off with what should be a fairly easy question.
Why is a case about queer erasure like Brian's so important to unpack and address with school leaders?
Brian, would you like to start us off?
[00:11:17] Speaker D: Sure. So I think, you know, as I read the case this morning, to re familiarize myself and prepare for our discussion, I was thinking about some of my experiences as a student and as a teacher. And so I think there's sort of two dimensions to why the case is important.
The first is that, you know, school leaders are who students go to to stop bullying, who they may go to if a particular classroom may feel unsafe for themselves.
So that's certainly who I went to. And there were some administrators that were better equipped to handle those conversations, I would say, and some who sort of brushed me off and didn't really do much. So I think that's important.
And then, you know, as my later positionality revealed is, as a teacher, there are also school leaders are who teachers expect to sort of have their back in terms of what they bring to the classroom, whether that be, you know, just pedagogically or, in my case, in terms of identity.
[00:12:31] Speaker E: So I think that, to reiterate everything that Dr. Dewarp mentioned, also, I think there's something to be said for showing up as your genuine self, especially when a big portion of what you do is building significant relationships with students in order for them to be successful in the classroom. And yet, when you're Hiding a portion of yourself, or you feel like you're lying, or you're even by omission, not being genuine with them, it feels like you're.
It feels like almost like imposter syndrome. Right. And that you're showing up in this way that really isn't your genuine self and that you cannot fully support them. So I think that's important.
Also, we know that students look to people in the building that look like them and that identify with them. And so I think it's really important, as Dr. Watson mentioned, for students who are experiencing higher levels of depression, higher levels of bullying, being called names, to really have someone that they feel like they can go to that understands the. Their plight, so to speak.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: I guess one of my. I guess questions I have. Maybe, Dr. Dwight, you can help me with this. Like, I know oftentimes as a black woman. Right. Students look to me for a role model and inspiration to be an ear, to see them in ways that they may not be seen by others.
As a member of the LGBTQ community, how is the burden for you? Like, do you feel sometimes taxed or stretched? And if so, how do you replenish that? Because it's hard being strong sometimes and also to be at the receiving end of cruelty.
So in one ways, it's a gift and a curse. I often say being black is lit. You can have some real challenges.
So how do you deal with it?
[00:14:22] Speaker D: So to your question.
For me, I don't really feel, like, an external pressure to, like, be a role model. For me, it's more, like, personal.
And I think it's because I'm.
I've reached, you know, a level of personal acceptance and happiness with who I am.
So for me, entering the classroom, it was never a question of if I would share with students. It was always like, how will I share?
So that came out of, like, the pain that I endured as a kid of not having any LGBT role models around. So when I entered the classroom, I was like, I want to be that person. Want more than need to be that person. So it was always like, I'm going to sort of wear this on my sleeve. It's a part of me that I don't want to ignore.
And I. I personally believe that that is good for kids to have to have that exposure and to have that representation.
Where it gets a little dicey is, you know, the geographic changes that I've made in my life. And so in Massachusetts, I felt a little bit more empowered with that decision, and I knew that I had principles that had My back, you know, So I knew that that wasn't necessarily going to be an issue.
But when I moved to Texas, that's when it did become a little bit more of a burden. I still maintained my position of, you know, I'm not going to hide who I am. And, I mean, frankly, I've never been good at passing as straight, so. So, you know, that's something I was very ashamed of growing up, and I'm certainly not ashamed of that now.
But in Texas, I felt a little bit more like my guard had to be up because I. It was a totally new. And you have to understand, like, when you grow up in New England, Texas is stigmatized as being this very conservative sort of place. And it's sort of instilled in you that it's, like a scary place. And I remember even colleagues told me when I moved to Texas that, you know, they thought I was crazy to be doing so. The irony is I end up in San Antonio, which is, like, way more progressive than the hometown I ever grew up in. Right. So that's another example of how stereotypes can just be completely wrong.
Um, however, you know, just kind of having that sort of experience.
When I was in Texas, especially initially, I was, you know, kind of worried about coming across as gay, especially when I was applying for teaching jobs. And so that is sort of when it became a little bit more burdensome. But even, you know, as a. It only kind of in terms of my teaching, I felt that I was in a place where I could be out until I had that conversation early on in the year with my principal.
But it was more like a burden in casual conversations. Like, Texans are very friendly people, and so they like to ask a lot of questions. And.
And I always would get kind of annoyed when it would get to the like, so why did you move to Texas? And I basically had to come out because I. I had to explain how I moved there because my partner got a job there. So.
So that was a little bit taxing in terms of feeling like I had to reveal something about myself that I wasn't necessarily sure I was in a safe space to reveal.
And that's where it became a little bit more difficult. But in the reverse, you know, when I was a teacher and I was asked to keep it a secret from kids, that was really difficult for me, and that was really painful because I knew that there were students that you said earlier struggling with their sexuality. I would argue students are not struggling with their sexuality at all. In fact, they're very in tune to what Their sexuality is, but it's the society that's struggling with what their sexuality is.
You know, they were dealing with the sort of societal backlash towards who they were. And I felt like I was sort of powerless in that situation. Like I was asked to stay silent and that was not, not something that I wanted to do in that, in that particular situation.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: Right, I know. Just based on that last comment, when I think about being specific, the struggling with sexuality, some students aren't sure. Sometimes I've found, like you mentioned in the article, like the teacher who had effeminate characteristics but was actually married and had children and how that was a disappointment. And I noticed that even when sometimes in talking with colleagues and they'll say partner, you know, people often think it's a same sex partner when it's just their spouse or just someone who they're living with but not married. And so it's always like this language that I think holds us hostage in some ways, like how do we say that?
Or even if you're, you're bi, or even if you're like some kids who I've spoken to just don't seem to know.
So how do you, as an educational leader, how do we help our students become better listeners sometimes? Because it's hard to have an answer for that.
[00:20:19] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's natural that students would question sort of where they fit in as they're coming of age, you know, and I think that's really what it is. It's kind of like questioning who am I and where do I fit in this.
But also just having these conversations like, you know, I just mentioned that I didn't necessarily agree with the term struggling. And you responded back with like, so what would you say instead? Like, that's a very respectful exchange. Right. And that's, I think, how we get over some of the barriers that language causes.
And you know, I've had to train myself to say spouse instead of, you know, husband or wife. And it's sort of just, you just, It's a slight change. Right.
But if we kind of remove the gender from some of these phrases, I think that does help kids because keeping a little bit open, maybe keeping it androgynous. Right. Or ambiguous in terms of what sexuality or gender someone is, it sort of opens up the possibility that it could be somebody, could be, you know, identifying in a way that a label doesn't necessarily describe.
And I think that's where a lot of kids are, you know, especially in middle school age. They're, they are Just trying to figure it out. And there isn't a label necessarily.
I certainly wasn't willing to accept the label gay when I was in seventh grade.
[00:22:02] Speaker E: If I could.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead, Dr. Conrad.
[00:22:04] Speaker E: I'm sorry. If I could just add to your original question, Dr. Watson, about, you know, it being seen sort of as a burden. I was always proud to be able. Able to show students that that doesn't have. You can achieve really great things. Right. It doesn't have to be something that keeps you from doing what you want to do. So I felt there was a moral obligation to do that. But it didn't come without some concerns, to be quite honest with you. My wife and I have been together 28 years, and so I've run the gamut of sort of this, you know, different, you know, ebbs and flows in terms of the bigotry and whatnot. And, you know, I was very, very careful how I spoke to students because I didn't want them to.
I didn't want parents to think I was grooming them. Right now I live in Florida, and so that's a really big thing right now is that you're grooming them. And so I wanted to be supportive of students and be supportive in a really genuine way. But on the other hand, I did care what. What parents might think. So how do you walk that fine line of supporting students and helping them with their identity, and yet, at the same time, make sure you're not crossing any lines that might be seen as inappropriate.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: Thank you. I wish we can model this conversation like that. People watch this and understand that it's okay to ask questions. It's okay to leave the door open and, and to have, like, neutral language. That's okay.
And to leave space for everyone. And the important part is that we leave space and we are intentional in that.
So that's my biggest, I guess, takeaway from this. So thank you both for your thoughtful answers.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: So just continuing the conversation for both of you, what are some of the biggest challenges facing educational leaders as we consider trying to create school systems that are more inclusive and equitable to be able to address the marginalization and otherizing of LGBTQ students?
[00:24:16] Speaker E: I can take a stab at that. I've always believed this. It's not the students, it's the parents.
And I think that students are more forward thinking than many of the adults.
And so if we can get past the adults in the situation and really talk and let students provide support for each other, I have found that they're much more accepting and they're much less worried about labels. They're much more in tuned with being different and they accept others more readily.
So I think that in this particular political arena, I think that's something that, that we can do to learn as adults.
And also, how do you push back?
Because this is a well orchestrated push from some of the conservative extremists, I will say, that are really working to make sure that students in schools and again, I'll refer to Florida and the don't say gay students in school are not talking about this. And when you are othered and then erased, it makes you feel horrible about yourself. So how do we regenerate the conversation?
I was telling Ian a story about my granddaughter. She had Grandparents Day and she called me specifically and asked me to come to Grandparents Day. We are in Pinellas County, Florida, and she is in kindergarten. And I decided that I should not go because she would not be able to explain to her teacher that her grandmas were married.
They're not allowed to talk about it. And the teacher then couldn't talk about it. And she doesn't know anything except for in her entire life her grandmas are married. And so I did not want the opportunity for her to feel like it was a bad thing and so had to choose not to go. And so I don't think some of the politicians are really thinking about the negative effects that we are having on students and how they feel about each other.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: Tracy, thank you.
And it's awful that you are having to experience and navigate that. Right. We should be allowing students to freely express who they love or members of their family who they're allowed to love. That's something that society shouldn't be telling us and creating rules for us. So thank you for providing that example. Just quickly, Brian, do you.
You have anything that you want to add? Just some of the biggest challenges facing educational leaders as we consider making schools more equitable.
[00:26:55] Speaker D: Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, Tracy's example sort of points out that we have to. The what's really challenging for educational leaders is contending with the. The community dynamics that are at play.
Because you sort of have to, as a school leader, educate yourself on, you know, what is the legislation saying I can and cannot do? How could I still operate within that to do what might be affirming for kids.
You know, I just think of like, what a disservice that Tracy can't go to her granddaughter's school. What a disservice that does for her own family, but also for the other kids in the class. That don't get right exposure, representation. They don't see grandmas at school that look like other familial relationships that they may have in their own family. And so then it's sort of like even otherizing.
It's almost teaching kids to otherize folks where they might not necessarily have done that on their own. I think, you know, just geographically. I want to point out about the community dynamics. I mean, you know, the school community, but it can also mean like the teachers within the school. There may be some teachers that are more sort of open to having this dialogue than others. I think principals have to navigate those difficult dynamics.
I think principals are also in a very or just educational leadership. Leaders in general are in a very kind of difficult position of like having to, you know, maintain employment, which we all have to put a roof over our heads. Right.
But then also maybe feeling like, you know, I think it comes to a point where it's like, is this the hill on which I wish to die kind of question folks need to ask. What worries me is that, you know, I'm basically asking straight people to be allies and put themselves on the line right now. Like, we really need you, like now's your time to be an ally. But at the same time I understand like how big of an ask that is.
And you know, about all of this legislation that's happening. Like, we talk a lot about Florida and the don't say gay bill, but there's a bunch of copycat bills like all over the country and even in, you know, those copycat bills are even playing out locally. So it doesn't, it wouldn't surprise me to hear, or it doesn't surprise me to hear rather that, you know, there are handfuls of angry parents showing up at school board meetings, even in very left leaning or liberal communities across the country that are, you know, advocating for these same types of policies or trying to regulate what can, can be said in schools. Right. And so what's, what's really challenging for ed leaders on that is that just having that dialogue, just the media cycle around the legislation that's being proposed, whether or not it gets passed, that has so many damaging effects on kids because kids hear the adults talk about it, they hear about it in the news and what they're hearing is, you know, these types of people are not allowed to exist, exist openly. Right?
And they're, they're hearing that. And then conversely, what some, some educators might be doing is going, oh, you know, gender identity is a divisive concept. Well, then I'm not going to teach about that at all.
Right. And you can't really blame them for that because they're trying not to get in trouble. Right. They're trying to avoid, like, a storm of angry parents, but that might be the community dynamics that they're at play with. So it's really challenging. I think it puts an additional burden on the leaders of it, on the leaders in our schools to try and figure out how to navigate that creating or fostering safe spaces for LGBT students and faculty in many places goes against the law.
And, you know, I don't really know how to ask students. You know, I teach in Ohio, and I basically have to talk to students about, well, how can you, you know, break the law a little bit, but not in a way that you get in trouble.
And that's something that I really struggle with. And I see in my classroom, that's students, school leaders, aspiring school leaders, really struggle with as well.
[00:31:52] Speaker C: You know, as we've had this discussion, what's clear to me is that we're pretty clear on the problem and the damaging effects this.
This. These policies have.
And, you know, as I think about this case, I think about this case study as a possible tool to start conversations.
And so let's start with Tracy. How could you imagine this case being used in some form of professional development to, you know, start conversations or at least start working towards or out of this. This terrible situation?
[00:32:34] Speaker E: I think most practitioners, most teachers, they really do support all students, Right. And so they want to have the language to address this. And so I think that this would be a good conversation starter. How do you find the language to be inclusive?
As Brian mentioned, break the law a little bit, but keep your job and still support students.
I think that we all want to do everything we can to make sure that every student has a place in the school. And so the practitioner level, I think they want to do the right thing. I think giving them ways to talk about it and to have conversations with people in their schools and how they can be allies.
You know, someone once said, you don't designate yourself as an ally. The oppressive group tells you you're an ally. And so I can't overstate how important allies are in this conversation, because they can support students safely. And then I think sort of on the, you know, the backside is that everyone would sort of send students to me. You know, I was the gay principal.
And so they would send students and say, you know, so. And so is really struggling. Can you talk to them? And so they, you know, created a space by Saying, hey, here's this person you might want to talk to. And so it was a collaborative support system, and not every single person had to have those conversations. That's something that I think that was going on the whole time, and not everyone knew about it. Right. And believe it or not, it was not a secret. But the students. I never one time had a student that violated any sort of confidential conversation that I had with them, ever. And so I felt like it was an important role that I had to play. So there are ways around it, unfortunately, we have to come up with ways around it. Right. But I think that if we get together and we have these conversations and we think creatively, we can still support students in this manner.
[00:34:44] Speaker C: Yeah. When it comes to it, down to it, it's about supporting students.
Brian, what is your thought about using the case itself?
[00:34:52] Speaker D: Well, yeah, I agree with everything that Tracy said. I think definitely starting with conversation, I would say I kind of came up with this tagline of, like, be rather than perform inclusivity.
And I think that that's what I mean by be right is like, take actionable steps for yourself. So I think having the conversation is a really great first step where folks can kind of reflect on their own positionality and their own responsibility to address this issue, but then take actionable steps based on, you know, what you've arrived at through that discussion. If you feel like you left the conversation thinking, like, you know, I don't really know, like, if there. If my state has a no promo homo law, you know, I should go look that up. Right.
And, you know, is that something that is, you know, stopping teachers from discussing this in my building or. Or, you know, asking those sort of questions, but also sort of educating yourself on sort of what are the actual and perceived laws around gender and sexuality in schools and your localized setting, and then also arming yourself with some responses for community members who. Who might try to regulate what's done in school.
And I think by doing that, you're sort of prepared to go out and be an ally. Right.
You're sort of. Instead of just reading in the news about all of this horrible anti LGBT and anti trans legislation, specifically, you're thinking about your response to it.
And I think that that's the actionable. The action is definitely the next step that's really important.
[00:36:41] Speaker E: If I might just add one thing, as far as being a colleague is opening, leaving the door open for the conversation and realizing that different people are at really different spots in their journey.
Some people still feel very strongly that that's not a part that they want to share. And so really recognizing that there are other people who are willing to step out, so to speak, and be an open, accessible support for students.
So just realizing that there's a spectrum and understanding that different people are at different places in their journey I think is an important aspect as well.
[00:37:22] Speaker B: This has been a remarkable conversation and I just want to take quick minute to say thank you to Dr. Duart. Thank you so much for sharing this story and for helping us continue to think about how different socio cultural identities, specifically sexuality and gender, are really important as we consider developing and supporting educational leaders.
And then I would also like to take a moment. I'd be remiss if I didn't say this. Just a big shout out. Thank you, Dr. Conrad.
You have always influenced me as someone that got their teeth cut in Columbia Public Schools. You've always been a great role model to me and I'm grateful for having that connection with you. So thank you.
[00:38:09] Speaker E: Thank you for having me. It's very, very nice to be here and have this conversation and thank you for elevating this. This is a very relevant and important topic. So I want to thank you for your research, Dr. Dwart, and also for you all to for elevating this conversation.
[00:38:26] Speaker D: Thank you all so much for having me. It was a pleasure.
[00:38:30] Speaker C: Well, if you would like to access this article, please visit our special collections page linked to the podcast. Every 90 days we will post five to six articles that are available to everyone.
If you'd like to see our whole body of work, please visit your local university library or talk with Sage about a subscription. If you have questions, you can email me directly at curtis brewertsa.edu.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: And you can plug this in somewhere. But I'm happy to say that with this special collection that Dr. Katherine Lugg has agreed to write a forward for this. So it's great to hear her thoughts on these cases and how we should move the profession forward to make sure that schools become beloved communities where all children are safe, warm, loved and protected.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: I'm Ian Mehta. You can email me at Ian metteen. Edu. You can follow me at Twitter A nmett e and we look forward to joining you all next time on jsail Jabber.
[00:39:51] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:40:06] Speaker C: Sam.
